1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:07,800 Where the fags can freely roam 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,640 this land, every pervert calls... 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,910 'I've been living among members of the Westboro Baptist Church.' 4 00:00:18,310 --> 00:00:24,190 'A fire-and-brimstone Christian group made up almost entirely of a single family.' 5 00:00:24,190 --> 00:00:32,590 6 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,200 Welcome to our picket! 7 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,680 'Since the Iraq War, they've picketed dead soldiers' funerals 8 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,600 'in protest against an America that tolerates homosexuality.' 9 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,350 Members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka are protesting... 10 00:00:50,350 --> 00:00:54,520 America is doomed! God hates fags! 11 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,270 Are you a homosexual? Are you or not? 12 00:00:58,270 --> 00:01:03,000 Shirley Phelps taught her 11 kids not just to hate homosexuals... 13 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,840 We're servants of the living God. That's all that matters. 14 00:01:10,990 --> 00:01:18,360 'The Westboro Baptist Church is probably the most controversial church in America.' Obey your God! 15 00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:33,840 Is this in the Bible? Fags eat faeces. That's a fact, hon! 16 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,790 This programme contains some strong language. 17 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,910 'The church is situated in a suburb of Topeka, Kansas. 18 00:01:57,910 --> 00:02:03,640 'Its pastor is the family patriarch Fred Phelps, also known as Gramps.' 19 00:02:04,870 --> 00:02:09,470 Hi. Hi there. You must be Shirley. Yes. I'm Louis. Hi, Louis... 20 00:02:09,470 --> 00:02:15,280 'But the day-to-day operations are now run by the pastor's daughter, Shirley, 21 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,310 'a lawyer and mother to 11 children.' 22 00:02:20,830 --> 00:02:23,390 So these are your signs. 23 00:02:23,390 --> 00:02:27,640 You've got "God hates fags" here. And "God hates you". 24 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:32,400 Don't think of fags as just those guys taking it up the tailpipe. 25 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:37,440 You've got "God hates fags" here. Think of it as people who are involved in some perverted sex act. 26 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:43,440 I'm talking about anything other than one man, one woman in their marriage bed. 27 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:48,070 So beneath that are there gradations of iniquity, as it were? 28 00:02:48,070 --> 00:02:54,790 If you see a nation or a people who have risen up with one voice to say that it's OK to be gay, 29 00:02:54,790 --> 00:02:58,910 they are a doomed people, they have crossed the line. 30 00:02:58,910 --> 00:03:05,790 When you say "gay pride", you have given over any notion that you're gonna admit that you're sinning. 31 00:03:05,790 --> 00:03:10,630 You understand that? Being gay is an innocent, alternate lifestyle? 32 00:03:10,630 --> 00:03:11,440 That's what I believe. Then you can't say, then you believe it's not a sin. 33 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:16,470 That's what I believe. they are a doomed people, then you believe it's not a sin. 34 00:03:16,470 --> 00:03:23,640 So you condemn yourself cos by your words are you justified and by your words are you condemned. 35 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:29,790 But it wasn't a big thing for Jesus. He had other priorities rather than homosexuality. 36 00:03:29,790 --> 00:03:38,430 It's not one of the Ten Commandments. Yes. 37 00:03:38,430 --> 00:03:45,430 The streets of this nation are full of married men having fag sex. That's adultery. 38 00:03:45,430 --> 00:03:52,440 So don't try to pretend that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery just because you're a fag. 39 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,720 Hi, guys. Hi. 40 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,670 Hi. This is Gabriel. How do you do? 41 00:03:57,670 --> 00:04:04,390 Go put your stuff away.This is Grace. 42 00:04:04,390 --> 00:04:10,200 'For the last few years, the church has taken its message of God's hate 43 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,680 'to the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, 44 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:24,040 Reasoning they were struck down by God for fighting for a depraved and doomed nation. 45 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,800 What is the plan? We'll get out here and put these signs in the air. 46 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,910 At the funeral? You call it that, but they're worshipping the dead. 47 00:04:33,910 --> 00:04:40,720 You do research into the soldiers that have died? Staff-Sergeant Kevin Zeigler. He died of an IED. 48 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:46,430 That's a... Roadside bomb. Right, an improvised explosive device. 49 00:04:46,430 --> 00:04:53,440 Exactly. His family was told that he and another soldier died while trying to disable the explosive. 50 00:04:53,440 --> 00:05:00,070 He was 31. Do you think it's possible that by getting in people's faces in this way, 51 00:05:00,070 --> 00:05:00,800 you're more likely to put people off the word of Jesus Christ and the Bible? 52 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:06,110 You do research into the soldiers to put people off the word of Jesus Christ and the Bible? 53 00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:11,390 Just human psychology? You think our job is to win souls to Christ. 54 00:05:11,390 --> 00:05:11,440 You do research into the soldiers Just human psychology? You think in people's faces in this way, 55 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,790 By getting in their face and putting signs in front of them, 56 00:05:15,790 --> 00:05:20,920 we just make what was already in their heart come out of their mouth. 57 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,110 we just make what was already in This is what I really think. 58 00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:25,750 You do research into the soldiers But there's a part of you that doesn't think that? No, there's not. 59 00:05:25,750 --> 00:05:30,520 You do research into the soldiers 60 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,910 Because we are the evil angels. EVIL angels? Exactly. 61 00:05:39,910 --> 00:05:46,910 Not because we're evil, but we're bringing the message of the evil that God has determined upon you. 62 00:05:46,910 --> 00:05:51,550 bringing the message of the evil God didn't do evil? My goodness! 63 00:05:51,550 --> 00:05:52,680 Come on, guys. Let's get outta here. Let's bail! 64 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,710 You do research into the soldiers bringing the message of the evil of Jesus Christ and the Bible? 65 00:05:55,710 --> 00:06:01,630 This is our corner. Come on, little boys! Zach, hop in in case he wants you... 66 00:06:07,630 --> 00:06:11,870 I'm just here as a journalist... Yes. ..Shirley. Yes. 67 00:06:11,870 --> 00:06:17,630 'Today's picket was at an intersection near a church in Kansas City. 68 00:06:17,630 --> 00:06:24,480 'Among the picketers was the pastor's wife, though of the pastor himself there was no sign. 69 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:30,000 'Like many states, Missouri has established strict regulations 70 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,030 'to try and limit the Phelps' contact with the bereaved 71 00:06:34,030 --> 00:06:34,680 'and I was relieved to see how far from the funeral the church members had to be.' 72 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,960 to see how far from the funeral the church members had to be.' 73 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,000 ALL CHANT: God hates America! 74 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,920 This is shameful. Yeah. Right down shameful. Yeah, hon. 75 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,550 You've got little kids like this... 76 00:06:55,550 --> 00:07:01,680 You obviously raised your brat for the devil, your big gluttonous brat for the devil! 77 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:04,800 And you go to Hell. I don't agree with the lifestyle. 78 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,160 I don't agree with the lifestyle. 79 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Yes, you do. No, I don't. you hate God, so just shut up! 80 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:20,950 What was he talking about? "I don't agree with fags, but que sera sera..." 81 00:07:20,950 --> 00:07:26,710 Fuck you! You think you can fix this? You think you're gonna change God? 82 00:07:33,470 --> 00:07:34,480 go down there? America is doomed. 83 00:07:38,550 --> 00:07:43,200 but so far the reaction has been approximately 100% negative. 84 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,670 Would you agree? Yeah. 85 00:07:45,670 --> 00:07:46,560 Is there another way of delivering the message, 86 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,360 you can fix this? You think 87 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,280 like a letter of consolation to the soldier's family? 88 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:59,390 We do letters, but not consolation. You angered God and now he's cursed your family! 89 00:07:59,390 --> 00:08:02,920 They're not gonna have any consolation. 90 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:03,550 As a picket today, how would you rate this, marks out of ten? 91 00:08:03,550 --> 00:08:07,550 As a picket today, how would you 92 00:08:07,550 --> 00:08:10,590 Hon, they're all tens. All of them. 93 00:08:10,590 --> 00:08:17,560 Would you say ten out of ten as well, Jacob? Yeah, God did this, therefore it's perfect. 94 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,440 Does everything get ten out of ten? Yeah. Thank God for all of his judgments. 95 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:24,350 Not one word falls to the ground. 96 00:08:24,350 --> 00:08:24,990 They're not gonna have Not one word falls to the ground. 97 00:08:24,990 --> 00:08:26,800 They're not gonna have Not one word falls to the ground. 98 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:34,990 'where most of the 70 or so churchgoers live.' 99 00:08:34,990 --> 00:08:38,750 Not one word falls to the ground. 100 00:08:38,750 --> 00:08:43,200 So this is the centre of the headquarters right here? 101 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:58,590 You can call it that. What would you call it? My back yard. 102 00:08:58,590 --> 00:09:03,870 You don't live communally with the other members of the church? No. 103 00:09:03,870 --> 00:09:09,910 Where does Pastor Phelps, the patriarch, live? On that second floor. Up there? 104 00:09:09,910 --> 00:09:10,560 In that building you've got the house part to this side and the church part to that side. 105 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:16,670 the house part to this side for the children. 106 00:09:16,670 --> 00:09:23,520 Have you wondered if you might be part of a cult? What do you have to be to qualify as a cult? 107 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:29,910 It's a religious group that exercises an inordinate amount of control over its members. 108 00:09:29,910 --> 00:09:32,990 You have to have other things also. 109 00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:39,910 Brainwashing and a charismatic leader at the top? Maybe Fred Phelps, your father, could qualify. 110 00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:43,480 I don't care about all that nonsense. 111 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:50,440 We're the ones who are adhering to the doctrines of faith of all mainline religions. They're not. 112 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,120 So what else you got? 113 00:09:56,470 --> 00:10:03,310 'To help her run the ministry, Shirley relies on her two eldest daughters, Megan and Bekah.' 114 00:10:03,310 --> 00:10:09,150 This is Bekah's room, OK. I don't see any posters of pop bands. No. 115 00:10:09,150 --> 00:10:12,600 Can we look in your closet? I guess you can. 116 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:20,080 You have quite a lot of clothes. Yeah, pretty much. Are there rules about what you can wear? Modesty. 117 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,510 Our parents don't have to tell us. We know what we can wear. 118 00:10:24,510 --> 00:10:29,630 We know what's appropriate. How do the girls at your school dress? 119 00:10:29,630 --> 00:10:36,790 One word - whore. Do you agree? We know what's appropriate. How people at your school think of you? 120 00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:41,790 They hate us, but we're nice to everyone. Why do they hate you? 121 00:10:41,790 --> 00:10:49,310 Because they hate the message. We We know what's appropriate. How 122 00:10:49,310 --> 00:10:52,120 Shall we do the next room? Yes. 123 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,440 So, basically, your circle of friends is mainly 124 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,680 or exclusively limited to people who are part of this church? Yeah. 125 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:05,230 Do you have any friends outside this group? 126 00:11:05,230 --> 00:11:09,910 No true friends. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. 127 00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:14,110 May I ask if you've had boyfriends? No, we haven't. No. 128 00:11:14,110 --> 00:11:14,790 Why not? Because in this life we're not about serving ourselves. 129 00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:18,670 we're not about serving ourselves. 130 00:11:18,670 --> 00:11:23,640 It's a temptation that's not needed and it takes up time we don't have. 131 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:31,960 When you come on with a lot of this stuff about the Bible, some might think you're arrogant. 132 00:11:38,070 --> 00:11:44,710 that is a clear indication that they hate God's word and that they're headed for Hell. 133 00:11:46,390 --> 00:11:50,110 that they hate God's word 134 00:11:50,110 --> 00:11:53,120 135 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,360 136 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:14,590 'The end of my first day at the church and during a choir practice, I had a moment to reflect.' 137 00:12:14,590 --> 00:12:18,640 138 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,630 'I felt I had been bombarded with religious rhetoric 139 00:12:22,630 --> 00:12:28,720 'and it was preventing me from getting to know the church members as people. 140 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:34,680 'With the girls especially, I sensed there was another side to their story 141 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:37,240 'and I was curious to know more.' 142 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,280 143 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,270 144 00:12:43,270 --> 00:12:47,470 145 00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:06,960 'niece to Shirley, cousin to Megan and Bekah, 146 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,840 'and in her day job, 147 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,000 'It would be a chance to meet another of the younger women 148 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,160 Hi. How are you? Good. Can we come in? Uh-huh. 149 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,480 Can you show us around? This is the computer study area. 150 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:37,480 This is a picture of the girls in the church when they were younger. Let's see that. 151 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,270 Who's that? Cathy. She's gone? Yes. 152 00:13:40,270 --> 00:13:44,790 And who's that? This is Betty, this is Fred Junior's wife. 153 00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:47,440 This is my Aunt Liz. This is Dot. 154 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,920 She's gone? Right. 155 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,470 This is Becky. That's my grandma. 156 00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:53,120 This is her daughter Sharon who has also gone. 157 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,440 This is her daughter Sharon 158 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,430 Is everyone else gonna stay? Everybody else? Yeah. 159 00:14:00,430 --> 00:14:02,920 Yeah. As far as we know. 160 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,520 I think so. Are you gonna stay? Yes. Do you like it? I love it. 161 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,000 Do you? Yes, I really do. 162 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:17,150 As far as you're concerned, those people that have gone away, they're going to Hell? Yeah. 163 00:14:17,150 --> 00:14:21,840 What if you don't believe in the Bible? You're going to Hell. 164 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,270 So I'm going to Hell? Yes, Louis, you're going to Hell. 165 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,880 You are. 166 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,230 Anyway, this is my room. 167 00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:37,750 Ta-da! There's pictures everywhere. 168 00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:44,030 What is this one? You like it? Yeah. It's the Wrath of God as revealed from Heaven. 169 00:14:44,030 --> 00:14:50,040 Do you think that's what it might look like when the Scripture is fulfilled? 170 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,960 That kind of thing, natural disasters, it's gonna be so awesome. 171 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,640 Has there ever been a time when you felt, um, tempted? 172 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,470 I don't want to talk about that. I don't think it's appropriate. 173 00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:05,110 I won't dwell on anything inappropriate if I can help it. 174 00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:08,760 I won't dwell on anything 175 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,630 gonna answer that question! 176 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:20,830 We're going to seek that which is good and abhor that which is evil. 177 00:15:20,830 --> 00:15:27,520 That's why we're not gonna dwell and tell you about every single sin we ever did in our life. 178 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,150 I don't think that'll ever happen. 179 00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:39,990 That's why we're not gonna dwell Why wouldn't that happen? Are you kidding me? 180 00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:44,990 Because I'm Jael Phelps and I serve God, that's why. That's why. 181 00:15:44,990 --> 00:15:50,590 And I'm not gonna go seeking after that because it's foolishness. 182 00:15:50,590 --> 00:15:51,230 Your father Jonathan got married. Your grandfather, Gramps, he got married. Shirley got married. 183 00:15:51,230 --> 00:15:57,550 Your grandfather, Gramps, he got 184 00:15:57,550 --> 00:16:05,470 Why should you be any different? Louis, we're living in the last of the last days. Time is very short. 185 00:16:05,470 --> 00:16:12,480 Times are very different than 15 years ago. There could be someone... Yes, but I'm not gonna plan it. 186 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,990 I'm not gonna seek after it and I'm not gonna dwell on it. 187 00:16:16,990 --> 00:16:20,760 That's not my interest. It's not my focus. 188 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,800 This is so silly. I don't wanna talk about it any more. 189 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,840 OK? 190 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,350 So I don't wanna go there. 191 00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:45,240 'That afternoon, I had an appointment to see Steve Drain. 192 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,880 I'm Louis. Hi, Louis... 193 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,240 'As his service to the church, Steve handles online media 194 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:06,040 'and is an all-round helper to the man he now calls Gramps.' 195 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,680 You wanna see how we make signs? The famous signs. "God hates fags." 196 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,230 'But in his old life, I heard he and I had something in common.' 197 00:17:15,230 --> 00:17:20,280 Is it true that you first came here as a documentary film-maker? Yes. 198 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:26,320 You brought your family here from Florida? Mm-hm. Are you glad you did that? Absolutely. 199 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:31,920 It's the only thing I can say I'm really glad that I did. Really? Hmm. 200 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:38,950 Is Gramps a disciple of God? Anybody who is an ambassador from God, preaching a sincere message, 201 00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:39,630 Is Gramps a disciple of God? is a prophet and Gramps is a prophet, as are all these other people here. 202 00:17:39,630 --> 00:17:44,320 Is Gramps a disciple of God? as are all these other people here. 203 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,920 So these are some of the ones... Some of these are kind of random? 204 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,390 They're not random. This one... 205 00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:58,550 Liz Taylor? Course she's a fag lover. Course she is! 206 00:17:58,550 --> 00:18:05,950 Desmond Tutu? How do you choose...? He lies about the Scripture every time he opens his mouth! 207 00:18:05,950 --> 00:18:06,870 How do you choose who to make signs about? There's no logic here. 208 00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:10,750 He lies about the Scripture a fag lover. Course she is! 209 00:18:10,750 --> 00:18:18,310 There's plenty of logic. Anybody in the news who supports the filthy fag agenda, we'll make a sign about. 210 00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:24,760 homosexuality before you came here? No. What was your feeling...? 211 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:32,030 I embraced the philosophy of libertarianism. I was a genius. It was OK to be gay? I was a genius. 212 00:18:32,030 --> 00:18:36,280 What is this? Look at this. That's a little offensive. 213 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,390 To who? People in Britain consider her an icon. 214 00:18:45,310 --> 00:18:52,720 Princess Diana? She'll be in Hell for all of eternity. I can't believe my ears. Oh, my goodness gracious! 215 00:18:54,840 --> 00:19:01,680 'In addition to the funeral pickets, the church also does a multitude of local pickets 216 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,830 chosen by the pastor.' 217 00:19:07,150 --> 00:19:07,830 So where are we actually going to now? We're going to a picket here at the Jew Church. 218 00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:14,160 here at the Jew Church. 219 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,680 The...? What did you say? The Jew Church. 220 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:23,350 That sounds anti-Semitic. They 221 00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:28,630 The rectum? Yeah, the rectum. That sounds insane when you say that. 222 00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:31,960 They worship that which they desire. 223 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:37,030 It's an expression of the flesh. It's a metaphor? Of course it is. 224 00:19:37,030 --> 00:19:37,680 Idolatry, fornication, all manner of sexual perversions go hand in hand, Louis. 225 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:43,240 Idolatry, fornication, go hand in hand, Louis. 226 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:48,240 This is callous defiance against God Almighty. The Jews killed Christ. 227 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,320 You're gonna say 228 00:19:52,320 --> 00:20:05,830 They killed Christ. News flash, Brainiac, Christ WAS Jewish. I'm telling you Christ was God. 229 00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:06,560 They called for his crucifixion. The Romans did it. The Jews did it. 230 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,280 It's a metaphor? Of course it is. 231 00:20:22,510 --> 00:20:27,120 You see these wonderful signs, "God Hates Fags, Temple Beth Sodom, 232 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,710 "Jew Fags, God Is USA's Terrorist"? 233 00:20:29,710 --> 00:20:33,400 These are wonderful signs. "Fag Troops"? 234 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:38,680 235 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:44,070 236 00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:47,110 237 00:20:55,590 --> 00:21:03,120 'That evening, Steve invited me to drop in on a special taping of one of the church's online sermons.' 238 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,590 Everything OK, Steve? 239 00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:06,240 'Hinting that there might be an opportunity to have my first face-to-face with Pastor Phelps.' 240 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:12,630 an opportunity to have my first 241 00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:19,680 Everything OK up there? Yeah, we just wanted to make sure we got our technical difficulties straightened. 242 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,230 just wanted to make sure we got our Steve! Come on. 243 00:21:24,790 --> 00:21:29,200 Where have you gone? Hello? Where are you? Here. 244 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,750 All right... What is going on? 245 00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:36,760 Yeah, yeah... Why don't you go ahead and...? Hi, guys. 246 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,910 How do you do? I'm Louis. 247 00:21:39,910 --> 00:21:45,910 Hi, Louis. From the BBC. You must be Pastor Fred Phelps. Yes. Glad to see you. 248 00:21:45,910 --> 00:21:46,800 What is happening? Pay close attention. 249 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,230 drop in on a special taping of one Pay close attention. 250 00:21:51,310 --> 00:21:55,150 Billy Graham, Hell-bound false prophet. 251 00:21:55,150 --> 00:21:58,110 I've known Billy more than 50 years 252 00:21:58,110 --> 00:21:58,990 and Billy, you are headed straight and irreversibly for Hell. 253 00:21:58,990 --> 00:22:03,390 drop in on a special taping of one Hell-bound false prophet. 254 00:22:03,390 --> 00:22:08,230 You are a lying, money-grubbing, Arminian heretic. 255 00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:14,470 At 88, Graham will soon die and split Hell wide open. 256 00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:18,760 And Westboro Baptist Church will picket your funeral. 257 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,040 Amen. 258 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,630 Thanks, Gramps. That was awesome. OK, guys. What do you want? 259 00:22:25,630 --> 00:22:32,110 You are basically the pastor of the church and the pater familias of the whole group. 260 00:22:32,110 --> 00:22:37,440 Did you see that newspaper story down at the bottom of the stairs? 261 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:43,070 No. Steve was gonna give us a tour downstairs, then he was in a rush. 262 00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:43,710 We've got a schedule to keep. We're not here to cater to you. 263 00:22:43,710 --> 00:22:48,670 We've got a schedule to keep. 264 00:22:48,670 --> 00:22:55,480 You are basically the pastor of many children do you have? Don't bother me with silly questions. 265 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,470 This is a pretty big family. How Get to some stuff that I'm the only one that can answer. 266 00:22:59,470 --> 00:23:06,550 Then we'll have a good interview here. In fact, were we supposed to have an interview? 267 00:23:06,550 --> 00:23:11,040 Can we have an interview? Not now. Not now? No, not now. 268 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:18,070 You were saying...how many children Can we have an interview? Not now. You already answered that question. 269 00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:18,910 You were saying...how many children Everybody in the civilised world knows how many children I've got 270 00:23:18,910 --> 00:23:22,870 You were saying...how many children We've got a schedule to keep. knows how many children I've got 271 00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:26,440 and grandchildren and great-grandchildren. 272 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:33,400 Is he stalling for time? Shall we go downstairs? Yeah. Thank you for having us. Sure. Glad to see you. 273 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:34,680 You were saying...how many children 274 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,360 There's the article he mentioned, Time magazine. Did that go OK? Yeah. 275 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:43,630 What was the big deal about asking how many children? 276 00:23:43,630 --> 00:23:44,280 He would've answered a sincere, relevant, theological question. That was a sincere question. 277 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:50,400 He would've answered a sincere, Time magazine. Did that go OK? Yeah. 278 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:13,920 I wanted to hear what HE had to say about it. You want us to say it in a certain way? 279 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:20,670 I wanted to know how many he would say... You have the guy who has by far, head and shoulders, 280 00:24:20,670 --> 00:24:25,510 more scriptural knowledge, knowledge of the Bible, the moral realm 281 00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:31,510 than anybody who has crawled over this Earth and you ask him a silly, dull question? 282 00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:36,480 How many children do you have? You're wasting your opportunity. 283 00:24:45,310 --> 00:24:48,880 Where are we going? To pick up the children. 284 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,920 'I sensed how impregnable the church members' beliefs are. 285 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,520 'I wanted to understand how that faith is instilled in the children.' 286 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:04,510 They go to normal schools? I'm surprised they're not home-schooled. There's two reasons for that. 287 00:25:04,510 --> 00:25:08,440 The first one is 288 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:15,430 Secondly, these children need to be in the faces of this community. That is part of our testimony. 289 00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:22,230 Do they preach at school at all? No. Only their presence. Only like they're walking picket signs. 290 00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:27,670 They see these kids and think, "God hates fags" or "America is doomed". 291 00:25:27,670 --> 00:25:30,160 Do they have friends at school? 292 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,240 I don't know if you'd call them friends. 293 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:43,230 They can bring them home? You think these kids want to come to our house? It's very nice. 294 00:25:43,230 --> 00:25:48,280 Where would that go? Pretty quick you'll get into the discussions. 295 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,880 But that's how I met my husband. He hung out with my brother. 296 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,950 I'm saying that when they come round, they're welcome. 297 00:26:01,950 --> 00:26:05,800 Could they bring girlfriends or boyfriends home? 298 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,270 I will not have my kids or boyfriends home? 299 00:26:10,270 --> 00:26:15,230 or doing activities that resemble what this generation calls dating. 300 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,680 Fun. Fun? Does that equal fornicating? 301 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:32,520 Not necessarily. Well, what does it equal? 302 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,080 Holding hands? No. Sending little notes to each other? 303 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:42,110 How are you, Gabriel? ..So you can teach 'em how to fornicate later? 304 00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:42,870 So they can learn early? You've got fornication on the brain! That's what this generation is all about. 305 00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:49,400 So they can learn early? You've got teach 'em how to fornicate later? 306 00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:51,120 'One of the pickets that afternoon was outside a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners. 307 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:51,760 was outside a hardware store what this generation is all about. 308 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:58,040 was outside a hardware store what this generation is all about. 309 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:58,680 'Apparently, Swedish authorities imprisoned a local pastor for preaching against homosexuality 310 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:05,080 imprisoned a local pastor for preaching against homosexuality 311 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,240 'which was enough to make the whole nation a target. 312 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,920 'I'd seen some of the youngest members of the clan hold placards. 313 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,710 'I wondered how much of the message they understood.' 314 00:27:18,790 --> 00:27:22,910 How old are you, Shirley? Seven. Seven. 315 00:27:22,910 --> 00:27:27,400 Do you know what the sign means? No. 316 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,000 No? Shirley, she doesn't know what it means. 317 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,160 Fags, troops, 318 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,160 flags, symbols, 319 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,200 No. Only their presence. Only like worships above God. 320 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:49,240 Does that help you at all or have I said a lot of words that were too big? 321 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:54,640 Maybe she's just making up numbers because she doesn't really get it. 322 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,080 Noah, do you know what fag troops are? Yeah. What? 323 00:27:59,080 --> 00:27:59,710 It's this nation. 324 00:28:01,630 --> 00:28:06,750 All these fags. It's a nation of fags. That's what fag troops means. 325 00:28:06,750 --> 00:28:07,390 It is a nation of fags, yes. 326 00:28:07,390 --> 00:28:15,910 fags. That's what fag troops means. 327 00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:24,480 Noah, do you know what else you could be, besides a fag, 328 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:29,470 to be in trouble with God and be included in that sign? What else? 329 00:28:29,470 --> 00:28:31,480 Swedish? 330 00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:41,080 Swedish and... 331 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:41,710 But if you're not a practising fag, what are you? 332 00:28:41,710 --> 00:28:44,920 But if you're not a practising fag, 333 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:45,550 What if you support fags? 334 00:28:45,550 --> 00:28:48,760 But if you're not a practising fag, 335 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,230 But if you're not a practising fag, You're a dyke? 336 00:28:51,230 --> 00:28:58,230 You could say you're grooming him into the weird behaviour that is characteristic of your group. 337 00:28:58,230 --> 00:29:02,270 You could explain your moral outlook in a classroom. 338 00:29:02,270 --> 00:29:06,400 Are you calling our service to our God weird behaviour? 339 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,320 Your statement doesn't make it right, doesn't make it a fact. 340 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:22,680 The world calls it weird. I don't care. The world hates us... Hello? 341 00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:28,990 'The next morning I was with Megan. 342 00:29:28,990 --> 00:29:34,990 'Phelps family members are expected to hold mainstream jobs and give 10% of their income to the church. 343 00:29:34,990 --> 00:29:43,840 'Many work as lawyers and Megan hoped to follow in that tradition.' 344 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,200 The university you go to. Yes. Yes, it is. It's lovely. 345 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,360 Good stuff. Totally. 346 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,200 Do you want to be a lawyer as well? Yes. Like your aunts and uncles. 347 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,350 Yeah. I'm the only one in my generation that wants to be a lawyer. 348 00:30:00,350 --> 00:30:05,350 'By now the church members had learned a little about my life 349 00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:11,950 'and they knew I'd had a child with my partner out of wedlock, which put me in the firing line.' 350 00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:17,920 Do you like going to the pickets? Yeah. Are you kidding? It must get old, though. 351 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:23,950 You don't get tired of pursuing your sins and your lust. Do I? I say you don't. Don't I? 352 00:30:23,950 --> 00:30:24,760 You keep doing it! Me, specifically? You OR anybody else. 353 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,440 Yeah. Are you kidding? You OR anybody else. 354 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,160 You serve your lust, I serve my God. 355 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,160 So should I be killed for having extra-marital intercourse? 356 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:41,400 According to our code? Yeah. I'm not sure. I think so. 357 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,470 I know adultery is. Wow. And homosexuality was. 358 00:30:45,470 --> 00:30:51,910 You want to see me killed for that. I want to tell you the truth. This is interesting. 359 00:30:51,910 --> 00:30:56,560 This is where you go to college. Yes. You have no friends here? No. 360 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,760 I have acquaintances. They're not my friends. 361 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:06,720 Do you have acquaintances you like? On a humanistic level? That are friendly? Yeah. 362 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,800 Any guys? Yes. 363 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,160 What do you want me to say? 364 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:18,640 If you saw a guy in one of your classes and thought he seemed nice or had potential, 365 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:25,630 and he said, "Want to get a coffee?" what would you do? It has happened. I said, "Sorry, I'm busy." 366 00:31:25,630 --> 00:31:28,190 Why? I have other things to do. 367 00:31:28,190 --> 00:31:32,280 What was his name? I don't even remember. You do. 368 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,750 Yeah, he was... What? Robert. 369 00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:38,440 Robert? Robert. I think. 370 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,520 Is that someone you know? No. He looks like the guy who asked me out. 371 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:51,040 It's kind of gooey, isn't it? But I know young women sometimes think about these things. 372 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:57,120 Most women also have... a whole lot of lust and fornication 373 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,240 and do a lot of things we don't do. 374 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,030 Why put it like that? Why not say "make love"? 375 00:32:04,030 --> 00:32:04,670 Cos you're trying to make it seem like something it isn't. That's not what you're doing. 376 00:32:04,670 --> 00:32:10,080 Cos you're trying to make it seem That's not what you're doing. 377 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,520 How do you mean? 378 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,320 Get married. You seriously wouldn't mind if you never got married 379 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:29,520 and never experienced everything that represents? No. 380 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,240 It shakes it up when there's more than one! 381 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:47,390 'And so my days at the church wore on. I could feel myself being absorbed into the family.' 382 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,470 Ahh! 383 00:32:58,710 --> 00:33:05,470 'almost as though their bond with each other had been strengthened by the hostility of the outside world. 384 00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:22,710 What did you say? I said, "Are you kidding me?! Who's going to marry US?" 385 00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:26,750 'And it was easy to become desensitised to their message 386 00:33:26,750 --> 00:33:29,880 'and how provocative it really is.' 387 00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:40,600 See, they covered their licence plates. I don't know what they were up to. Did they hit somebody? 388 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,790 Is he OK? 389 00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:43,800 plates. I don't know what they were 390 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,790 Is he OK? 391 00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:51,000 I'm sorry, hon. 392 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,440 They had the licence plate down. 393 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,830 You all right, honey? 394 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,990 Hey, bud. You got it all over you. Hey, bud, I'm sorry. 395 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,230 I knew they had done something. 396 00:34:08,030 --> 00:34:12,870 I am so sorry. You want to go talk to your daddy? 397 00:34:12,870 --> 00:34:13,510 Hey, hey, you want your sign? 398 00:34:15,510 --> 00:34:18,760 Let me wipe that off of you, OK? 399 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,190 I'm sorry. Megan, can you...? 400 00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:25,270 They are such cowards. Who would hit a child? 401 00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:27,600 Who would do that? 402 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,840 It looks like here, Tim. I know... See that? 403 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,870 His eyes. 404 00:34:35,870 --> 00:34:39,870 Do you see that colour? That's what was in that cup. 405 00:34:39,870 --> 00:34:40,630 It obviously got around on him. 406 00:34:40,630 --> 00:34:42,520 It looks like here, Tim. It obviously got around on him. 407 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:47,160 'Seeing seven-year-old Elisha get hit by a drink was a reminder 408 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,960 'that among the victims of the Phelps were their own children. 409 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:02,270 'It was Sunday and I'd been invited along to a church service. It would be another chance to meet the pastor 410 00:35:02,270 --> 00:35:10,510 'and maybe have an interview. But first I had an appointment to help with chores around the homestead.' 411 00:35:10,510 --> 00:35:11,470 Do you see much of Gramps? Sometimes on Monday and Tuesday. I haven't seen that much of him. 412 00:35:11,470 --> 00:35:16,510 Do you see much of Gramps? 'that among the victims of I haven't seen that much of him. 413 00:35:16,510 --> 00:35:20,680 I think he's gotten tired of you guys. 414 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,270 How can he be tired of us? You and your impertinent questions. 415 00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:32,590 He doesn't have much patience for people asking a bunch of questions that aren't relevant. 416 00:35:32,590 --> 00:35:39,910 You know, when we were at your house and you said I was going to Hell, 417 00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:45,910 Thinking on those things, it brings me pleasure to think that the Lord will vindicate His people, 418 00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:49,990 He will carry out His wrath because He is perfect. 419 00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:56,000 It doesn't make me happy to think of you burning in Hell. OK. Does that make me a better person? 420 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:03,230 No! You know God because He sends the wicked to Hell 421 00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:06,310 That's comforting to think on. 422 00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:12,310 Why couldn't you feel sad that I was going to Hell? Because it's according to God's will. 423 00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:16,030 So you rejoice in all his judgments? Exactly. Very good point. 424 00:36:16,030 --> 00:36:16,680 If you got run over by a car, would your dad be pleased? 425 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,990 If you got run over by a car, 426 00:36:25,870 --> 00:36:30,310 Really? Really. I'm serious. And we have to move on. 427 00:36:30,310 --> 00:36:33,920 That's crazy. In your thinking it's crazy. 428 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,320 If you got run over by a car, Let's go. Come on. 429 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,630 CONGREGATION SING 430 00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:47,270 'A little later, I joined the rest of the church members in the family chapel 431 00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:52,390 'A little later, I joined 432 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:03,430 433 00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:10,710 'A little later, I joined 434 00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:17,710 435 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:36,000 Is it true that if I do something wrong, Gramps could go loco? He'll just tell you not to do it. 436 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,910 Would it be embarrassing for him? For you. Why? There's no experience quite like it. 437 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:07,150 of one of Gramps' services.' 438 00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:11,320 Is it true that if I do something Same-sex marriage, 439 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,310 by any name, civil union or otherwise, 440 00:38:15,310 --> 00:38:21,360 is the ultimate smash-mouth, in-your-face insult 441 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,950 to God Almighty. 442 00:38:23,950 --> 00:38:28,270 You think He's gonna let England and America get by with it? 443 00:38:28,270 --> 00:38:29,280 God Almighty has not joined fags in holy wedlock. 444 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,240 civil union or otherwise, 445 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:37,560 God no longer keeps America safe. America's doomed. 446 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,200 Getting the pants beat off of us 447 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,640 to God Almighty. 448 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,990 God is now America's terrorist. 449 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:51,430 That's who Bush is fighting. 450 00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:58,840 to God Almighty. 451 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,470 You tweaked His nose, you jackass! 452 00:39:01,470 --> 00:39:04,080 You tweaked His nose! 453 00:39:05,830 --> 00:39:10,150 God put it in your wicked heart to start that war! 454 00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:15,000 That's the message we got at the funerals of these dead soldiers. 455 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,040 God duped you 456 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,830 into starting a war 457 00:39:19,830 --> 00:39:22,030 so He could punish you 458 00:39:22,030 --> 00:39:27,990 Any preacher preaching in any other way is a lying, 459 00:39:32,190 --> 00:39:38,160 It's almost 18 months now and this siege has got people eating their babies. 460 00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:51,070 God himself duped Bush into a no-win war 461 00:39:51,070 --> 00:39:59,520 and He did that by the technique of putting a lying spirit in the mouth of all his trusted advisers. 462 00:40:01,150 --> 00:40:03,710 To punish America. 463 00:40:18,430 --> 00:40:21,070 At least two million. 464 00:40:21,070 --> 00:40:21,720 Maybe three or four million. 465 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,390 Pastor, would there be five minutes for a couple of questions? 466 00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:32,280 Well, uh... Yeah, five minutes. Shoot. OK. 467 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:39,480 I was struck by your preaching. It was as if you feel we are living in a time of Biblical prophecy. 468 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,310 Is that accurate? No, it's not. 469 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:55,200 I don't know how to deal with a question like that. You're just too dumb. Sorry. 470 00:40:59,710 --> 00:41:00,430 Because you're a human being. God Almighty made ya and He will send your ass to Hell. 471 00:41:00,430 --> 00:41:05,910 Because you're a human being. as well as I do. Why? 472 00:41:05,910 --> 00:41:11,550 Is it accurate to say that you regard the Westboro Baptist Church as the only church 473 00:41:11,550 --> 00:41:17,590 that's preaching according to the words of God? Is the three minutes up? The answer to you is yes. 474 00:41:17,590 --> 00:41:21,600 It was five minutes. But I already talked two, didn't I? 475 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,280 So there's three left? 476 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:32,560 Do you believe your preaching is the only preaching according to the word of God? Asked and answered. Next. 477 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:38,550 Do you believe your preaching is the are the people of this church the only ones now living 478 00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:43,390 that will make it to the Kingdom of Heaven? Asked and answered. Next. 479 00:41:43,390 --> 00:41:49,510 Is there something you'd like me to ask? Nope. I didn't wanna talk to you or even let you in. 480 00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:55,550 Isn't it an act of presumption that when you don't have all the information about the other churches 481 00:41:55,550 --> 00:41:59,190 ask? Nope. I didn't wanna talk to grace? 482 00:41:59,190 --> 00:42:04,390 I know all there is to know about them. How? I won't keep talking. 483 00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:14,800 Didn't Steve Drain tell you that you'd wasted an opportunity and they'd probably fire you? 484 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:22,680 You're just an evil... I don't wanna go there. 485 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,760 And good luck to you. 486 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,590 OK, guys. 487 00:42:26,590 --> 00:42:29,350 Did you come to carry some stuff? 488 00:42:31,550 --> 00:42:35,920 God hates fags! God hates fag enablers! 489 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,000 The abominable, disgraceful, filthy conduct 490 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:43,630 that you think up to engage in. 491 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:47,230 Quit worshipping the flag, dummy! It can't help you. 492 00:42:47,230 --> 00:42:50,270 Quit worshipping the flag, dummy! 493 00:42:50,270 --> 00:42:56,160 Run on for a long time 494 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:02,160 Tell 'em that God's gonna cut you down 495 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,230 cut you down 496 00:43:05,230 --> 00:43:09,310 cut you down... 497 00:43:09,310 --> 00:43:15,230 'I'd sensed a deep wellspring of anger in Gramps and I suspected this was the basis 498 00:43:15,230 --> 00:43:22,590 'for his church's ministry. His skewed interpretation of the Bible had been handed on 499 00:43:22,590 --> 00:43:27,600 'and was now broadcast to the world. They had no interest in winning souls. 500 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,560 'Being hated was proof that they were doing the right thing. 501 00:43:35,390 --> 00:43:39,880 'As part of their effort to reach every corner of America, 502 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:40,510 'they had decided to picket a soldier's funeral several hundred 503 00:43:40,510 --> 00:43:45,790 'they had decided to picket 504 00:43:45,790 --> 00:43:48,760 'in Skokie, Illinois. 505 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:04,390 ..however many there are of you, just to picket this dead soldier's funeral? That's right. 506 00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:09,040 For 45 minutes. Yep. Is it really worth it? Yeah! 507 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:16,240 They'll get the message. You see what it's created around this nation. Good morning. 508 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:21,190 I'm gonna sit in the second row unless somebody else is there. 509 00:44:24,310 --> 00:44:31,920 How much would you say the church spends in an average year on flights? A lot. How much? 510 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,990 For 45 minutes. Yep. It's in the 200,000 range. Really? 511 00:44:34,990 --> 00:44:35,640 $200,000. That's more than maybe £100,000. Yeah, I don't know the ratio. 512 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:40,750 That's more than maybe £100,000. 513 00:44:40,750 --> 00:44:46,990 Just to go and spread hate? No, to go and preach the gospel. God's hate. Not your hate. 514 00:44:46,990 --> 00:44:51,640 It's very scriptural what I said. Actually, that's true. 515 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,920 "His unit was supposed to end 516 00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:02,320 "but one day before Foyteck was scheduled to leave, he got news that it would be sent to Baghdad. 517 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:08,320 "He told his family he'd be home in November instead and his mother mailed him his cell phone 518 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:13,750 "so he would be able to call. Foyteck, 26, died two days before Hallowe'en, 519 00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:18,910 "shot in the neck by insurgents during a raid on a house. 520 00:45:18,910 --> 00:45:25,470 "In addition to his mother, he is survived by his father, a brother Christopher 521 00:45:25,470 --> 00:45:32,560 "and grandparents." Doesn't that make you sad? It's very sad that they won't get the message. 522 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:38,950 All they have to do is obey their God and they'll stop the pain, but they're not going to. 523 00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:43,030 their God and they'll stop the pain, It's not! It's so concrete. 524 00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:43,680 We don't know anything more than this about Kraig Foyteck. 525 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,320 than this about Kraig Foyteck. 526 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:53,710 No, we know two things. He's been killed, therefore he was doing something sinful. 527 00:45:53,710 --> 00:46:00,760 He was fighting for a nation that has made God their enemy. There's no good people in the military? 528 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,590 It's all very plain and simple. You will not make me feel bad. 529 00:46:05,590 --> 00:46:09,120 I did not do that. I'm doing this to help them. 530 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,080 Is there any danger of you feeling bad about it? Is there any danger? 531 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:14,110 I did not do that. than this about Kraig Foyteck. 532 00:46:14,110 --> 00:46:18,590 You say that almost as though I got through to you. No. 533 00:46:23,710 --> 00:46:27,710 You say that almost as though are temporal. They'll fade away. 534 00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:31,750 If God is infinitely wise and powerful and omniscient, 535 00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:36,040 then He could bring a soldier up to Heaven if He felt like it. 536 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,510 Listen to you! This nation thinks they are all-powerful, almighty 537 00:46:40,510 --> 00:46:45,600 Listen to you! This nation thinks You think that about your church. 538 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:50,070 and the power comes from our God. 539 00:46:50,070 --> 00:46:56,710 We have all the power. You stay tuned. He will come through the clouds and execute judgment on them. 540 00:46:56,710 --> 00:47:03,760 Isn't it possible that the funeral is for a good man, a righteous and a nice person, 541 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,950 who doesn't deserve to have his funeral picketed? Not a chance, 542 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,630 funeral picketed? Not a chance, 543 00:47:13,630 --> 00:47:18,640 You say that almost as though 544 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:19,390 You say that almost as though 545 00:47:19,390 --> 00:47:23,670 You say that almost as though 546 00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:29,640 'At the funeral, I decided to break away from the picket and go inside the memorial home 547 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,080 You say that almost as though 'to see the mourners first-hand.' 548 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:32,710 He was doing what he wanted to do. 549 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,600 funeral picketed? Not a chance, 550 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:41,150 I have to honour that, as much as I miss him and don't think it's fair. 551 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,200 But he was doing what he believes and what he wanted. 552 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,790 Kraig wanted to go in the army after high school, 553 00:47:49,790 --> 00:47:53,630 so he did what he wanted to do. He did. 554 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:04,080 We just have to carry on his memory and his honour through other soldiers and help other families. 555 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:12,960 and his honour through other soldiers 556 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,070 BELL TOLLS 557 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:45,080 'Seeing the mourners brought home the reality of the grief 558 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:45,720 'but I realised I'd got as far as I could with Shirley.' 559 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:49,150 'but I realised I'd got 560 00:48:49,150 --> 00:48:56,920 Louis, you're going to Hell. 'Try as I might, nothing I said made any impact on her beliefs. 561 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,560 'Back in Topeka, and while we've been away 562 00:49:12,670 --> 00:49:18,840 'For the Phelps it was another sign 563 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:24,070 You want to get a sign, Louis? To and while we've been away 564 00:49:24,070 --> 00:49:24,750 Yeah. 'I was nearing the end of my time in the group. 565 00:49:24,750 --> 00:49:28,120 Yeah. 'I was nearing the end of my time in the group. 566 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:29,230 'I'd made no headway with Shirley, but tried my fellow documentary maker, Steve Drain.' 567 00:49:29,230 --> 00:49:34,230 'I'd made no headway with Shirley, You want to get a sign, Louis? To the end of my time in the group. 568 00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:34,360 'I'd made no headway with Shirley, You want to get a sign, Louis? To and while we've been away 569 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:40,360 Now that I've come to the end of my time here, are you curious to hear my thoughts? 570 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,640 I'd love to. Go ahead. 571 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:48,630 I spent a little bit of time with the Pastor and I think maybe he's got a lot of anger. 572 00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:51,270 Maybe he's a rageaholic. 573 00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:56,760 But perhaps his ministry is human-focused, not God-focused. 574 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:04,990 The Bible's a pretty long book, but if you pick and choose, you can justify almost any behaviour. 575 00:50:04,990 --> 00:50:06,000 When I say God hates fags, OK, that's not the whole message that we have. 576 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,230 But perhaps his ministry Maybe he's a rageaholic. 577 00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:16,240 That's the front burner issue, the elephant in the room that nobody else talks about. 578 00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:20,880 That's not the only piece of evidence for my argument. 579 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,310 The whole idea that Westboro Baptist 580 00:50:25,310 --> 00:50:28,630 are the only ones going to Heaven. 581 00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:34,560 If there was somebody else out there preaching the unvarnished word of God, from cover to cover, 582 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:46,110 If He did come back... He'd be holding this sign. 583 00:50:46,110 --> 00:50:46,790 ..rather than.... I'm trying to tell you. He'd be picketed by your church. 584 00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:52,120 ..rather than.... He'd be picketed by your church. 585 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,750 I seriously believe that. You are seriously deluded. 586 00:50:55,750 --> 00:51:00,430 I'm preaching what the Bible says. You preach what your dark heart says. 587 00:51:00,430 --> 00:51:06,520 I'm willing to talk with you, but you're just being silly. I'm not. Of course you are. 588 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:12,520 Want a ride back? I'm not being silly. I don't think you have the truth. You're running away from it. 589 00:51:15,190 --> 00:51:21,640 You're just trying to turn yourself into God by saying things ought to be this way, or thus and such. 590 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:28,120 You are the one who has the God complex, Louis, not me. But I don't claim absolute truth. 591 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:29,030 I don't claim it of myself. You pick and choose. These people, we'll be nice to them, 592 00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:34,080 I don't claim it of myself. He'd be picketed by your church. 593 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:34,710 but not to those other ones. Have you ever seen me be mean? 594 00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:38,750 but not to those other ones. 595 00:51:38,750 --> 00:51:49,630 Not you specifically. The church. I am the church. Did you rejoice when that church burned down? 596 00:51:49,630 --> 00:51:53,630 You rejoice when soldiers die in Iraq? Absolutely I do. 597 00:51:53,630 --> 00:51:58,390 When people are knocked over by cars and get cancer? Absolutely. Love it. 598 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,790 Come on. 599 00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:11,470 'My time among the hatemongers of Westboro Baptist Church was done. 600 00:52:12,790 --> 00:52:18,870 'I'd expected to meet a group that causes pain to people in the outside world, 601 00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:24,910 'but I'd been surprised to find that the members of the church were also paying a price. 602 00:52:24,910 --> 00:52:31,200 'Shut off from the world, they preach a hatred that reflects back at them, confirming their beliefs 603 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:36,040 'and ultimately denying the right to a normal life to the young.' 604 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,830 Are we going to go in my car? Yeah. 605 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,160 Mom, they're here. 606 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,480 They want to go for a coffee drink. 607 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,950 No. She says no. 608 00:52:47,950 --> 00:52:49,720 OK. 609 00:52:51,790 --> 00:52:56,470 We have coffee in our house. OK. Have a coffee here. All right? 610 00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:59,470 How come we couldn't go out? I don't know. 611 00:52:59,470 --> 00:53:02,470 We have coffee in our house. OK. How's it going? Good. 612 00:53:02,470 --> 00:53:04,600 of God Almighty. 613 00:53:11,350 --> 00:53:13,560 That's true. 614 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,680 We have coffee in our house. OK. But I'm special! 615 00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:17,590 I listen to what my parents say. 616 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,600 I respect my parents, so... 617 00:53:29,790 --> 00:53:35,800 No. What are you talking about? I sense there's a little bit more inner tension in you. 618 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,480 Inner tension? Yeah. A little bit. Oh, no. 619 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:47,760 People who watch us will be thinking there's a very nice, charming, attractive woman 620 00:53:52,670 --> 00:54:00,240 and moving out into the world and maybe thinking in a few years of starting a family. 621 00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:04,240 Why does everybody have to get married? Well, no one has to. 622 00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:08,310 But why shouldn't everybody have the choice? 623 00:54:08,310 --> 00:54:14,200 I have the choice. You do and you don't. It seems that it is so inculcated in you 624 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,160 that the outside world is this devilish, satanic place 625 00:54:24,350 --> 00:54:29,800 Who would...even want to marry someone who serves God? 626 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:35,440 I don't blame you for being born into a situation outside your control 627 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,120 and I can also see that you're coming to a time in your life 628 00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:46,110 where you might start That time has come and gone. 629 00:54:46,110 --> 00:54:46,750 I've already reached the age where I have made the decision of what I want to do. 630 00:54:46,750 --> 00:54:51,640 I've already reached the age 631 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:52,270 Did you have a rebellious few years? 632 00:54:54,270 --> 00:54:59,840 Louis, if I ever was rebellious, do you think I would tell you about it? 633 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,200 there's really no one for you 634 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,680 I'm ashamed of any nonsense that I've ever done. 635 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:10,150 When we started picketing, when I was First Grade... 636 00:55:10,150 --> 00:55:16,800 Six years old. People have been treating me the way you see us being treated now 637 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,160 since I was that young, 638 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:26,040 What did they do? Well, nobody wanted to talk to me at school. 639 00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:30,670 And, um, they were ashamed to be around me. 640 00:55:30,670 --> 00:55:36,720 You know that sense of being ostracised? Uh-huh. If you preach that the world is hateful, 641 00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:39,160 and full of condemned sinners, 642 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:43,550 then the world will start to take that shape. 643 00:55:43,550 --> 00:55:46,150 Well, it's very simple. 644 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,990 We read scriptures and we tell people what the standard is. 645 00:55:52,990 --> 00:55:55,550 We don't do violence to people. 646 00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,630 We, um... 647 00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:59,310 warn them that their sins are taking them to Hell. 648 00:55:59,310 --> 00:56:03,070 are taking them to Hell. 649 00:56:03,070 --> 00:56:06,520 We do a courteous, loving thing to them. 650 00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,920 That's courteous and loving. 651 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:10,990 And they... 652 00:56:10,990 --> 00:56:14,950 hate us. And they...beat on us. 653 00:56:22,630 --> 00:56:27,430 What did we do to them? Nothing but a courtesy. So... 654 00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:31,550 That's quite a weird kind of courtesy. How is it weird? 655 00:56:31,550 --> 00:56:38,710 Going to funerals and waving those placards. We preach to the living, we warn them. 656 00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:43,440 with us. They're just downright mean Are you afraid of going to Hell? 657 00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:47,110 with us. They're just downright mean Um, I fear the wrath of God. 658 00:56:47,110 --> 00:56:50,070 I fear, um, going to Hell. 659 00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:51,160 with us. They're just downright mean we warn them. 660 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:52,150 But I...certainly hope I won't go there. I think you laughed at the idea of me in Hell 661 00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:58,150 with us. They're just downright mean we warn them. 662 00:56:58,150 --> 00:57:02,400 because maybe it made you feel that you weren't going to Hell. 663 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,430 I laughed at the thought of you going to Hell because... 664 00:57:06,430 --> 00:57:10,480 I know you, Louis, and you're a scoffer and a mocker. 665 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:15,360 It gives me pleasure to know that the Lord will vindicate His people 666 00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:21,950 and He will glorify His own name. That's all this is about. Glorifying God. 667 00:57:21,950 --> 00:57:25,870 So... That's why I smiled. 668 00:57:25,870 --> 00:57:31,440 Come on. I haven't scoffed at you. Let's get out to the picket. 669 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:43,150 Glorifying God. 670 00:57:43,150 --> 00:57:43,390 and He will glorify His own name. Come on. I haven't scoffed at you. Glorifying God. 671 00:57:43,390 --> 00:57:47,640 Rules that you should obey. Did you do it for me? 672 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:54,110 Yeah, so you can carry it around, so you can know all the rules of obeying God. 673 00:57:54,110 --> 00:57:58,390 Don't kill people. Don't marry two people. Don't lie. 674 00:57:58,390 --> 00:58:04,720 I think everyone lies some in their life. Maybe when they're a kid. 675 00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:09,520 Do not act like a snake. More especially you again. 676 00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:14,950 All of these, I guess. What does that mean? Act like a snake? 677 00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:17,400 I can't remember. 678 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,240 Hey! You gave us that... No, no. 679 00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:26,350 Don't say that. Like a snake? You clarify for him. 680 00:58:26,350 --> 00:58:33,840 Yeah. Don't act like a snake. Then it says, "Don't be sneaky". 681 00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,240 All of these, I guess. What does